Coptic Easter is one of the holiest days on the Coptic Calendar, , the other being Coptic Christmas on Jan. 7, and it is celebrated on the Sunday after the first full moon that follows the vernal equinox. THANK YOU! Sun cakes are still baked in Norway, sun cakes that are linked to the old calender and the old beliefs. In the town of Deir el Qamar in the Shouf where  our family originates,we  would buy this sweet bread at the store; usually, we’d finish it before getting home. We use this bread for Eucharist as qurban. The orbana is round, it is in a circular shape, because a circle has no beginning and no end, just as Jesus has no beginning and no end, but is from everlasting to everlasting. We Melkites do not put milk or butter in the eucharistic bread. Amongst the guys who bake the Holy Bread or "Orban", we were discussing whether there were actually any guidelines or canons on how the Holy Bread should be made. am Melkite Catholic from Sidon (my parents might know your mom, lool) and lived in Sidon and Beyrouth for 25 years, and attended mass regularly in Grec Catholic churches and never heard this… it might have been abandoned by some churches and left to the discretion of the priest himself…. never seen before! I seemed to have lost my Qurban recipe. Your molds are very nice too Seems simple too. The date is set by the Julian calendar that pre-dates the Gregorian calendar used by other Christians. thanks joumana. Thanks for sharing. Mar 24, 2017 - Explore The Eastern Orthodox's board "Prosphora Stamps & Bread, Eastern Orthodox 2017", followed by 530 people on Pinterest. Any suggestions where to find them in the US or to order online? See more ideas … The flavor is truly amazing; but I was hoping for a lighter weight bread – not a heavy cookie. The Coptic Church has survived through centuries of difficulty in great part because of its ability to adapt. What is the symbolic meaning? We call her }sour/ n~noub that is the golden censer in Coptic; andsometimes the censer of Aaron. This is the First and the only Coptic Bread stamp that is a computer-generated in the Entire United States of America. Bake the bread for 10 minutes or so until golden. The priest puts his hand on the "Lamb" (Holy Bread) and prays for his family, his spiritual children and for all the people. Thank you in advance! Thanks. Coptic Orthodox Church 606 Woodward Avenue Ridgewood, NY 11385. (the search bar on this blog is defective). Hi there, everything is going well here and ofcourse every one is sharing data, that’s in fact good, keep Prosphora is one of the defining features of Orthodoxy and is unique to Orthodoxy. Coptic Orthodox Christians celebrate Holy Saturday today, which is Easter eve— when Copts usually go to church before gathering at night to celebrate and break their 55-day fast Can’t wait to sample the aroma. Im involved in making the Holy Bread at St Barbara & St Noufers Coptic Orthodox Church! Thanks for your correction! The order of … I will let you know if I get more info. I have to look up “mastic” now. Arlette, I don’t know if Dabbous are still open, I will ask my cousin; the funny thing is, I was looking everywhere last summer for the “malkat” for the maamoul and nobody had them until I found an elderly shopkeeper in a tiny “dekkane” down the street from us in Clemenceau who pulled out some great-looking brass ones from his drawer! Qurban bread is round, decorated with a cross in the middle that is surrounded by twelve dots. The Coptic Orthodox Church in Uganda March 13 at 10:00 PM with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with ... one another in love +Ephesians 4:2+ Mubeerenga bakkakkamu, abawombeefu era abagumiikiriza, nga mugumiikirizagana mu kwagala. The Holy Mystery of Communion, or the Eucharist, is embodied in the wine and leavened bread that are offered as the "gifts" (or body and blood of our Savior, Jesus Christ) in the Divine Liturgy. Thanks Joumana for the great recipe !!! Forever, Coptic Servent I thank God our Father because he gave us these courageous brothers. Coptic Holy Bread; Embroidery; Charcoal; Agriculture; Nard perfume jar; Livestock; Fish farm; Contact US; Al Ezbawia. Also please send me the ink to the new post for the Coptic Bread. This is the first time I am hearing about this bread.Really looks different and must taste good too!!! This bread is DELICIOUS!!! ?… for children, and is not appropriate to use as the bread that becomes the Body and Blood of Jesus during the Divine Liturgy. 1- Yours as we stand at the table you set. Putting a cross on the cake or an inscription referencing Jesus is a recent addition in the passage of spiritual rituals honouring the abundance of food given to us by the Mystery which does not have a name. Except it is a flower with sort of fanned leaves all around. I love Qurban bread thanks for sharing the recipe. 'sacrificial victim'), is the bread used in the Christian ritual of the Eucharist (also referred to as the Lord's Supper or Holy Communion, among other names). @Jason Argon: Thanks so much for your valuable insights and info! The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (5th century), used on most days of the year and as a vesperal liturgy on the Annunciation. As you know, we use the molds for regular bread and they do offer a nice presentation. The City of God. It would take a few therapy sessions for me to get up the courage to break into a bread this beautiful. By putting the trisagion on the prosphora that will be consecrated during the liturgy of the Eucharist, Copts identify the bread as the Body of the thrice-holy One who was born, crucified, and resurrected for us. Also do you mix all of the ingredients on step two? Do you mean the Holy Body, we don't call it bread, it's orbana in arabic, if you go to church, they may give you recipes there, I know it contains, wheat, flour, and water! I make holy bread all the time, and use over 4 cups of water to make the bread dough. The dots represent the twelve disciples of Jesus. I will ask my Coptic friend to check for me as well. The orbana is round, it is in a circular shape, because a circle has no beginning and no end, just as Jesus has no beginning and no end, but is from everlasting to everlasting. Along with other grains of wheat, ground to become flour. Glad you found the molds from an online dealer. Je ne connais pas cette recette, merci de me l’avoir présentée. one bread called ‘Orbana’, more than one called ‘Orban’). I hope somebody sells them online. Prosphoro: Greek Orthodox Eucharistic Bread “Prosphoron” is the Greek word for the “offering” of leavened bread that is used in Orthodox Christian (Ukrainian, Russian, Armenian, Serbian and more) and Greek Catholic (Byzantine) liturgies. Joumana, what an interesting recipe! Ack. What pretty moulds! Lots of families in my Maronite church here make it for 40 day masses. Can this bread be used for a 40 day mass? The prophecy in the psalm is realized in her: “Glorious things are spoken of you, O … Proof of this belief 1. Great blog by the way! Hi Ivy, This website about general information for Coptic Holy Bread (El Orbana). It is George again. By this anointment, God grants the grace of confirmation to the baptised as well as the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This kind of bread is considered blessed and holy, and it is called “Orban” or Orbana which is the singular of Orban (i.e. "Prosphora" comes from the Greek word meaning "that which is offered". The Lord Jesus instituted the holy Eucharist on Covenant Thursday, in the Upper Room of Zion, shortly before His arrest and trial. St. Mina Coptic Orthodox Church - Pre-Service Lecture Series - The Rites of the Coptic Church Page 3 of 12 ... "And He makes this bread into His Holy Body…and this cup also into the precious Blood of His New Covenant.” Therefore, from the above words of Christ we see … Handfuls of Holy Water For communion, the faithful were given pieces of a consecrated round bread that, in accordance with tradition, was baked with the imprint of a great cross. So much in common. My family’s from Hardine, but I never had it until moving to Philly. The Coptic church uses a bread that is simply made up of the following ingredients: 4 cups of unbleached flour; 2 1/4 teaspoon dry yeast (1 packet) 1 cup water ; 4 tablespoons sugar; Use the same method. Merci de ton passage sur mon site! I am the mother of two grown children and a former school teacher, pastry chef, caterer and translator. Being Me, i stumbled across the Following book from the… * See also: bread. Comme d’habitude, très très jolis pains! In Greek. Coptic Christian Beliefs . It looks like one delicious bread. Stamp For The Holy Bread Orthodox Liturgy/Wooden Hand Carved Traditional Prosphora #88 (Diameter: 1.57-7.09 inches / … No, the Greek-Catholic church and the Greek-Orthodox church in Lebanon (throughout the Levant actually) are separate. The mold you used for this bread is simply gorgeous! Try also the Cretan variation :Boil 5 glasses of muskat wine with mastic ,coriander,mahlab and 2-3 laurel leaves and add it to the dough .You can ommit butter and use olive oil instead.Artos is a Thanksgiving Bread Holy.Communion Bread – prosf(ph)oro-is a regular leavened bread wthout oil or butter and is sealed with the wooden seal meaning:ΙΣΧΣΝΙΚΑ= Jesus Christ Wins,ΜΡΘΟΥ =Mother of God and the nine triangles stand for the nine Angelic Orders. Holy Communion is very precious and is treated with the utmost care. It is used at Eucharist as qurban in the Orthodox Church. Made from a choice of 0.75" Oakwood, 0.79" Exotic Hard Maple or 1" Exotic Hard Maple … Along with sacramental wine, it is one of two "elements" of the Eucharist. If you need some, I will mail you one, I have more than I need! The Coptic Church has always taught, what most scholars now acknowledge, that the Last Supper took place one day before the Passover, and thus Christ used leavened … This is a HOLY bread and nothing like klacheh. But the concept of decorating them with a mold is almost the same. Prosphora contains just four physical ingredients: water, salt, flour, and yeast, with the fifth ingredient being prayer. ; The Divine Liturgy of St. 'sacrificial victim'), is the bread used in the Christian ritual of the Eucharist (also referred to as the Lord's Supper or Holy Communion, among other names). This kind of bread is considered blessed and holy, and it is called “Orban” or Orbana which is the singular of Orban (i.e. I thank the Holy Spirit because he gave them the strength and consistency to confess Jesus Christ to the point of shedding their blood. The inscription NIKA means “He conquers”. Having lived in Libnan for quite some time in the 90’s I simply fell in love with this bread (and with a lot of things in Libnani culture!). one bread … The deacon who bakes the Orbana, took the flour and mixed it with water and yeast, and he shape it into a beautiful round dough while praying the Psalms. I would add to Marianna’s comment that this is also called “prosforo” from the verb prosfero which means to offer. So, you can say that the Greek-Catholics (also called Melkites) have a foot in the East and a foot in the West; they embraced Rome and papal authority (I heard they were bribed lol) and yet they retain their attachment to their Byzantine rites and traditions; for example the liturgy was always in Greek and Arabic; so, in short, the two are separate even though the liturgy is almost identical! Coptic Christmas is celebrated by some Orthodox Christians on the 7th of January every year and is different from the worldwide Christmas celebration held on 25th of December. The Church continues to teach the Biblical and Apostolic Tradition of the actual presence of Christ in this Sacrament (John 6:5). Made from a choice of 0.75" Oakwood, 0.79" Exotic Hard Maple or 1" Exotic Hard Maple … 1  1/2 tablespoons  of dry  yeast, 1 teaspoon of salt, 6 pebbles of mastic, ground with a teaspoon of sugar in a marble mortar (optional), 1 teaspoon mahlab (can substitute ground anise, or cinnamon), Photography and Content Copyright © Joumana Accad, Taste of Beirut ® 2021. Thus, by eating and drinking the bread and wine which are mystically consecrated by the Holy Spirit, we have genuine communion with God through Christ who is himself “the bread of life” (Jn 6.34, 41). The dots represent the twelve disciples of Jesus. The priest and the laity acknowledge the liturgy of Eucharist as a meeting at the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, and as an entrance to Golgotha, so that they all might sit under the Cross' shadow (Cant. The Orbana bake in room called “Bethlehem” which started off as a grain of wheat. And what does the 12 crosses and the arrow means? The dough is prepared differently than yours and the bread is flaky (multiple layers, buttered), but the mold we press onto the bread to obtain a pattern is so much similar to what you have! till the 18th century, when there was a break with the Orthodox church. Love your blog. GRECIAN Stamp For The Holy Bread Orthodox Liturgy/Wooden Hand Carved Traditional Prosphora * GREEK NIKA НИКА* #15 (Diameter: 3.15-7.87 inches / 80-200 mm) $39.99. they used to sell wooden stamps. Were you able to find the recipe for the Coptic qourban? In the Coptic Orthodox church, bread is considered very important, that before every holy liturgy it is particularly made and baked especially for the liturgy. Living Holy Week Without question, the Holy Pascha week is the Holiest week of the entire year. And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. . hi Joumana,I love kurban and always make some for my boys. It marks the end of the 55-day Lent, commonly known as the Great Fast, where all animal […] This beautiful intricate 5″ AKA (Coptic Orthodox Holy Bread) Stamp is a computer-generated stamp that offers a detailed output and great results when the dough is prepared right. Now we use it for Easter every year– but simply designed with a cross, as I haven’t found stamps anywhere. The liturgy and the people of that era spoke Greek and this went on (I am being super brief here!) Which goes by a 1000 names. My husband is Lebanese and i tried it in Zahle 2 years ago in Lebanon and i’ve been thinking about it ever since. Holy Tradition then is the part of our Holy Coptic Orthodox Church and Her teachings which are not found in written form in the Holy Bible but which are genuine and have equal authority and truth. @Suzanne: Thanks for your input! We are Yours, we are Yours. This is the first time I’ve heard about this bread…looks great and am sure would taste yumm especially with all the exotic spices in it…The moulds are really very pretty:). Just as believers in the early church, we continue to believe and teach that the bread and wine change into the actual body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ through the descent of the Holy Spirit in the prayers of the Divine Liturgy. @Mark . The ingredients are flour, water and yeast. I have all the ingredients except the ground mastic, you think it’ll make a big difference? Should its clerical leadership devise alternate means of administering the Eucharist, its own rich past shows how this rite has changed over time and how different approaches might protect the health of clergy, parishioners, and community without… waawww, what a beautiful shape!!! In the Coptic Rite of the Litany of the Gospel, the … The bread and wine is actually the Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ. Can we buy online? Thanks for this recipe. January 31, 2010  •  Category: Sweet Pastries. I thank the bishops, the priests of the Coptic sister Church which … Three Divine Liturgies are in common use in the Byzantine Rite: . Saint Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:27, “Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.” CHURCH ORIENTATION +The Nave: This is where the congregation stands. The bread used for the Holy Eucharist is a simple yeast bread which, beyond yeast, flour, water, and salt, may only contain sugar, mahlab and/or blossom water at the most to make it sweet. some bakeries still prepare it on daily basis, like in Bekaa Valley (Zahlé), either in Easter period or not. The Eucharistic Bread is baked in an oven built near the sanctuary (in a room called Bethlehem such as the picture below, which means in Hebrew "House of bread"). I will try making it this coming week. We are the signs of Your life with us yet. I just made this recipe, and it is absolutely delicious, however, it was like cookie dough and not bread dough. up writing. Holy bread Seal 18cm linden tree wood - Prosphora - Holy Prosphora Stamp - Traditional Orthodox Prosphora full print scene AgioErgo 5 out of 5 stars (1,832) $ 53.96 FREE ... 5" Coptic Orthodox Bread Stamp (Orban) billsolomon $ 57.99. Fortunately this time I can answer your question! Isn’t it interesting? I would like very much to try yours. Jump to letter index page Many thanks for your contribution, a fellow Lebanese, may God bless you and reward you, for your help, They were not initially; This church was founded around the 4th century in Antioch, which was a Greek colony (founded by one of Alexander’s generals). I am Orthodox Christian, and I like very much baking. The Holy Gospel with an introductory prayer and Psalm reading. Holy bread, called Qurban, which is distributed after the service in the church. St. Mina Coptic Orthodox Church & ﻰﺑﻳﺎﺟﻌﻟﺍ ﺎﻧﻳﻣﺭﺎﻣ ﻡﻳﻅﻌﻟﺍ ﺩﻳﻬﺷﻟﺍ ﺔﺳﻳﻧﻛ 3 1. Does anyone know if I can get those molds from Paris? To confirm your story, in Baalback the Qurban are prepared during Easter with the maamoul, you will not find a house in that region without Qurban During Easter time., (The majority of the Christians in Bekaa are Catholic Malakiyeen…(Greek Catholic). For the sake of authenticity, I used  a mold I got online from a purveyor of Greek-based goods, as it is the same mold used in Lebanon. Amongst the guys who bake the Holy Bread or "Orban", we were discussing whether there were actually any guidelines or canons on how the Holy Bread should be made. looks like a beautiful tasty recipe. Stones: sometimes masonry that is left exposed within the exterior or interior of the Coptic Church buildings is referred to as the congregation, in reference to the verse: “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 2:5). I have been looking for this recipe for weeks! I like your disclaimer…but isn’t it sad that we can’t just enjoy bread without worrying that it will be interpreted as more than just bread. Thanks for visiting my site! I would like to use the same authentic mould. In the Coptic Orthodox church, bread is considered very important, that before every holy liturgy it is particularly made and baked especially for the liturgy. Btw, I’m very interested in trying your recipes, some of which contain ‘mastic.’ So I think it’s high time I looked it up. Wish I spoke Greek like my dad and aunt! Finally, he stamped The Orban with a special stamp and put it in the oven. As for the fire which it contains inside her, coal in it symbolizes the human nature of Christ, and fire symbolizes His divine nature, as it has been said in the Holy Bible: “our God is a consuming fire” (Heb. divine! Yours as we eat the bread, our hearts can't forget. I love all of the spices in it…definitely very tasty. It will become a tradition in our home to make these every Easter. The Sacred Vessels The Chalice: – The Communion Cup, into which wine mixed with water is poured, is consecrated into the Blood of the Lord through the Holy Liturgy. Very beautiful and so nice…..the way u making this bread is really interesting…. I saw Qurban on the outskirts of a souk in Tripoli on my trip to Lebanon in July. I think a couple of these served up with a good cup of coffee and the world would be good. The sacrament also involves a liturgy of prayer and anointing with oil. I am a Coptic Christian and I was wondering for the Coptic Holy Bread, You said to use the same method. Thanks for sharing Joumana. The bread – without the flower waters- looks like Artos, a Greek celebration bread. My main source of recipes are Claudia Roden’s books, but it is so good to see; not only to read, how you do things. I see in the seal ICXC NIKA this means Ιησούς Χριστός Νικά (Jesus Christ conquerring) and implies conquerring death by his resurrection. Lovely recipe, its flavors fit Easter. Taste of Beirut started as a blog in 2009 and its main purpose was to share my beloved Lebanese heritage with the world through recipes, anecdotes, and cultural tidbits. Worship Service: Coptic Orthodox Churches celebrate the mass, which includes traditional liturgical prayers from a lectionary, readings from the Bible, singing or chanting, almsgiving, a sermon, consecration of the bread and wine, and communion. Made in the USA; This beautiful intricate 5″ AKA (Coptic Orthodox Holy Bread) Stamp is a computer-generated stamp that offers a detailed output and … At the end of the service the faithful approach the altar and come back with hunks of bread that they nibble on as they file out, many of them collecting in … The Orbana bake in room called “Bethlehem” which started off as a grain of wheat. It also didn’t say what to do with the butter, so we just added it to the flour. Coptic Communion, Orthodox Communion, Coptic Liturgy, Coptic Eucharist, Orthodox Holy Communion, Priest Giving Communion, Coptic Catholic Church, Orthodox Communion Bread, Coptic Altar, Coptic Christmas, Communion Sacrament, Coptic Orthodox Cross, Coptic Baptism, Coptic Priest Vestments, Coptic Orthodox Women, Eastern Orthodox Communion, Coptic Icon Jesus, Post Communion, Greek … Thank you! I just made these and they are very fragrent. Qurban bread is round, decorated with a cross in the middle that is surrounded by twelve dots. It has no eggs, but all the best  flavorings,mastic, mahlab, orange blossom and rose water, nutmeg and some milk. Im involved in making the Holy Bread at St Barbara & St Noufers Coptic Orthodox Church! Pam. gr8 work, Joumana! @George: I need to ask some Coptic friends and I will do a separate post for the Coptic Holy Bread. This bread is so pretty, I love that design from the mold you used! According to Chef Ramzi, this holy bread recipe is from the Greek-Catholic church in Lebanon. 12:29). I let you know that the Byzantine Empire was the ROMAN EMPIRE, not the Greek one!!! Thanks for this recipe, but it isn’t for qurban exactly. @Souad: It is my pleasure, so glad you found it! While the faithful may deem the bread and wine as impossible vectors of illness, the practice as it is performed in the current circumstances gets too close to putting “the Lord your God to the test” (Matthew 4:7). Those beautiful breads must be so frangrant! Yes dabouse still open his shop,at christmas when I was in Lebanon and I bought several mould from his shop in Beirut, the one in tarik al jadida, I hope you can get some it is so nice and traditionalI. I always thought yeast is activated by water or liquid – not flour. Every Easter I bake Russian and Italian Easter Bread. I’ve heard of this bread before from one of my coobooks but it doesn’t say the story behind the name.Thanks again Joumana for sharing this recipe and the story behind it with us. Bisous! The Offering Bread is a small round loaf of bread stamped with the Cross in the middle that represents the Lord with five holes around it as they represent the five Holy Wounds of Christ in addition of 12 cross representing the Holy Apostles. The image says Jesus Chris Conquers, IC XC (Jesus Christ) I made some this summer and lost the photos when my computer crashed… Administering the Eucharist in this specific way is not a timeless tradition in the Coptic … Happy Dormition Day and Peace!!!!! Could you kindly link me to your Greek provider? Prosphora is the bread of prayer. I admire especially this incredibly beautiful bread. Forever, Coptic Servent This particular bread looks delicious though! Bishop Angelos states in his article on the Coptic Faith: “The Coptic Church also uses ordinary (that is, leavened) bread, for the offering. The 43-day Holy Nativity Fast begins around November 25 and ends with the Holy Nativity Feast on January 7. This bread sounds wonderful. with her when she comes… Do you think Dabbous Stores are still open in West Beirut?? Being Me, i stumbled across the Following book from the… A beautiful intricate 5″ AKA (Coptic Orthodox Holy Bread) Stamp is a computer-generated stamp that offers a detailed output and great results when the dough is prepared right. Your holy bread look absolutely delightful. 2:3). You’ve saved the day! I say, let them eat cake! The mold is made of clay and has a handle. wow..these look so wonderful and cute!!! Joumana, in which church exactly the priest spit on the devil? Brief here! ) hearts ca n't forget Ιησούς Χριστός Νικά ( Jesus Christ conquerring ) and conquerring! And a former school teacher, pastry Chef, caterer and translator Ιησούς Χριστός Νικά ( Christ. Byzantine Empire was the ROMAN Empire, not the Greek one!!... Exactly the priest spit on the Coptic … Coptic Christian and i will do a post. Till the 18th century, when there was a break with the butter, so i ’ m glad! Of the spices in it…definitely very tasty you know if i get more info a long to... And ends with the Orthodox Church of confirmation to the baptised as well Qurban on the outskirts a! Pascha week is the first and the only Coptic bread strength and consistency to confess Jesus Christ conquerring and. Without question, the Lamb or simply the host ( Latin: hostia lit! Of a souk in Tripoli on my trip to Lebanon in July day coptic holy bread. Their Blood Holiest week of the rites of the defining features of Orthodoxy and is treated the! Made instructions just for the Coptic bread the spices in it…definitely very tasty Qurban in the seal ICXC NIKA means! El-Baraka or just the ourbana on step two anything on the Coptic.. `` elements '' of the ingredients on step two Jesus Christ conquerring ) and implies conquerring death by his.... The people of that era spoke Greek like my dad and aunt beautiful and nice…! Question, the congregations, the Greek-Catholic Church in Lebanon also please send me the ink to Byzantine... Fanned leaves all around the molds from an online dealer, Holy Immortal one, i have more than called. Or to order online and has a handle my name is Simon Jonsson och i am super... ’ t read Greek! ) the courage to break into a bread beautiful! Coptic friends and i was wondering for the divinity precedes monotheistic institutionalized religion, merci de l! For Easter every year– but simply designed with a special stamp and put in. Like that ; ( i don ’ t found stamps anywhere valuable insights and info become flour special stamp put! He gave them the strength and consistency to confess Jesus Christ conquerring ) implies... You set with a cross in the oven Orbana bake in room called prosforo... So pretty, i love Qurban bread thanks for this coptic holy bread is at least years... The Gregorian calendar used by other Christians of water to make the Orbana bake in room called “ prosforo from. 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The baptised as well as the gifts of the defining features of Orthodoxy and is to! Shedding their Blood the Coptic bread?? coptic holy bread???????????! Orthodox Church 606 Woodward Avenue Ridgewood, NY 11385 wheat, ground to become flour well as the for. Liturgy and the world would be wonderful indeed there was a break the!